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Five Reasons why French Open Seedings should be as per the ATP Rankings- Roland Garros, 2013

french open roland garros french open seedings ITF ITF rules grand slam seedings wimbledon seedings explained itf rules for grand slams itf rules grandslam seedings

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Poll: Should Roland Garros change the seeding method for French Open, 2013? (19 member(s) have cast votes)

Should the seedings method for French Open, 2013 be changed?

  1. Yes (30 votes [8.13%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.13%

  2. No (339 votes [91.87%])

    Percentage of vote: 91.87%

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#1 Vibhuism

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:49 AM

Hey all,

 

 

Yesterday there was a report in a French Website RMCSPORT, which quoted Roland Garros committee member and former French Davis Cup captain Guy Forget as, "Roland Garros should change the seedings system for French Open, 2013 to avoid a Quarter-Final clash between Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic as it would be a shame to see Rafa and Djokovic playing in the Quarters,"

 

 

Before we go any further, let me firstly clarify that Rafael Nadal still has a mathematical chance of regaining No. 4 ranking before French Open, 2013. For a detailed in-depth analysis as to how it is possible, click here.

 

 

 

Now, let us consider, that Rafael Nadal won't be able to regain 4th Rank before French Open, 2013 & will be ranked 5th after Italian Open (Rome Masters), 2013. So, if we go by Rankings, Rafa Nadal would get the 5th Seeding at French Open, 2013.

 

 

 

So, what that means, Rafa Nadal being the 5th seed can face any of the Top-4 seeds in the Quarter-Finals of French Open, 2013.

 

 

 

I have been asked this question several times. In the Quarter-finals of a Tennis tournament (be it a Grand Slam, ATP 1000 Masters, ATP 500 or 250), the guy who is seeded 5th can get to face any of the top 4 seeds. I have explained that in great details here.

 

 

So, if Rafa Nadal is seeded 5th :

 

 

Then there is a 25% probability that he can get to face Novak Djokovic or 25% probability that he can get to face Andy Murray or 25% probability that he can get to face Roger Federer or 25% probability that he can get to face David Ferrer in the Quarter-Finals of French Open, 2013.

 

 

 

So, to avoid Rafa vs Nole (RAFOLE) Quarter-final clash or Federer vs Nadal (FEDAL) Quarter-final clash, should the Roland Garros management committee tinker with the seedings?

 

 

 

 

                                                                RollandGarros.jpg

 

 

 

The argument that people who want to change the seedings (especially of Rafael Nadal) for French Open, 2013 suggest that in order to ensure that the interest of French Open, 2013 is alive, RAFOLE or an FEDAL Quarter-final clash should be avoided.

 

 

 

 

 

Is it possible for Grand slams (including Roland Garros) to give player seedings differently from their ATP Ranks?

 

 

 

As ITF is the Governing Body of Grand Slams, so ITF's 2013 OFFICIAL GRAND SLAM RULE BOOK (you can download the rule book from here) in regard to "Selection of Seeds" states that ---

 

 

The selection of seeds will be at the discretion of each individual Grand Slam Tournament Committee, however, the computer ranking list dated approximately seven (7) days prior to the tournament shall be a primary, but not sole, basis for such selection.

 

{Extract from Page-24, f(ii)}

 

 

 

So, in a nutshell, every Grand Slam can give seedings as per their own discretion with the primary basis being the ATP (computer) rankings.

 

 

 

 

Currently, out of all these four Grand Slams, Wimbledon is the only Grand Slam that has its own seeding system. If you are interested in knowing the exact procedure as to how seedings are given for Wimbledon, click here.

 

 

 

 

While the other Grand slams follow the ATP Rankings announced on Monday immediately preceding the Draw.

 

 

 

So, should the Roland Garros organizing committee do the same & tinker the seedings for French Open, 2013?

 

 

Should Rafael Nadal be given a special or a protected seeding of #4 at French Open, 2013 to keep the interest in the tournament alive? or as John McEnroe said give Rafa a protected seeding of #1 or as Brad Gilbert suggested that give Nadal a protected seeding of #2?

 

 

Should Rafael Nadal be given a higher seeding (at Roland Garros, 2013) than David Ferrer or Andy Murray if he fails to regain the No. 4 ranking before the French Open, 2013?

 

 

 

My answer is a Big No.

 

 

 

Scroll down for the Top Five reasons which will make me boycott French Open, 2013, if Roland Garros organizing committee decides to tinker the seeding system for French Open, 2013.

 


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#2 Vibhuism

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:48 AM

The following are the main five reasons why according to me, French Open, 2013 seedings should be only on the basis of ATP Rankings.




i) Impossible to decide a Mechanism for another seeding system :::



As I explained above, though, Wimbledon does follow a different seeding system, where in the "surface based adjustment" is made for points earned by player on Grass Court Tournaments in the preceding 12 months/ 24months.



As we all know, Grass court season is the shortest season of all the Tennis seasons (compared to Clay Court, Hard court season).


If the Roland Garros organizing committee takes a leaf out of Wimbledon's committee books and decides to allow adding of points earned by the players during clay court season in the preceding 12 or 24 months, then the biggest challenge will be to add points from which Clay Court tournaments?


As we saw, this year, after Rafa made his come-back, in February, he played at Chilean Open, then Sao Paulo, then ACAPULCO (which were clay court tournaments). Also, Monte Carlo Masters (another clay court tournament is a non-mandatory Masters Tournament).


So it is virtually impossible for Roland Garros committee to allow adding points earned on other Clay Court tournaments like Wimbledon does for other tournaments played on Grass surface.


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#3 Vibhuism

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:00 AM

ii) Other Grand Slam champions including Andy Murray can fall out of Top-4 seedings

 

 

 

 

Though, the primary discussion of this topic is revolving around Rafa Nadal's seeding, but if Roland Garros does decide to tinker with seeding system, then that might just mean that the 2012 US Champion Andy Murray who is looking almost certain to be the No. 2 or No. 3 before French Open, 2013 might just get a 5th seeding at French Open, 2013.

 

 

If points from other clay court tournaments are added, with full regard to David Ferrer (of whom I am a very-2 big fan) will almost be surely seeded ahead of Andy Murray in spite of the ATP points difference of 2000 points between these two players.

 

 

This for sure, will spark another controversy.


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#4 Vibhuism

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:13 AM

iii) Rules should be consistent and shouldn't be made for one year

 

 

 

 

I fully agree that Rafa Nadal is arguably the greatest ever clay court player. His records on the clay court are for all to see & be proud of. But, does that mean that to ensure that particular players don't play against him in the Quarter-finals, the seeding system(based on ATP Rankings) that  is being followed by Roland Garros should be changed all of a sudden?

 

 

Will Roland Garros tinker the seeding rules again next year? Can the rules of a prestigious tournament like French Open be changed every year?

 

 

The answer is a Big No.


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#5 Vibhuism

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:20 AM

iv) Public perception and the loss of Goodwill :

 

 

 

As we all know, no tournament can ever be successful without the support of fans & a positive feed-back from the worldwide audience.

 

 

 

If the seeding system is changed so abruptly, without giving any advance notice to players & fans, then the general public would treat it as "Match Fixing" and that would be very harmful not just for the goodwill of Roland Garros but for the entire sport as well.


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#6 Vibhuism

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:00 AM

v) Acceptance from players

 

 

 

As discussed above, if the seeding system is changed without informing players in advance, that would really invoke players anger with many players threatening to even boycott the event. As you all will be aware, even Wimbledon seeding system has been criticized by many players in the past. Many top players including Alex Corretja, Costa and Ferrero even threatened to boycott Wimbledon because of seedings.

 

 

So, in a nutshell, if the present seeding system(based on the rankings) is changed by Roland Garros, it will be widely criticized by players including the threats of boycotting by players.

 

 

Thus, I strongly feel that Roland Garros should stick to their present system of seeding.

 

 

 

 

PS: Thanks to Sandcoco, My Bro Kishore & My Dad V.K. Batra for helping me in this post :).

 

 

Please do caste your vote in the poll and let me know, what do you feel? Should Roland Garros change the seeding system or stick to the present seeding system(based on ATP rankings) for French Open, 2013?


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#7 Wendy_redRobin

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:27 PM

I don't like the idea of tinkering with the seedings to "fix" who might play who in the QF.

It also smacks of favouritism.

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#8 Kristina

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:19 PM

Nice detailed explanation as always.


You are very right. Even Wimbledon has been subject to a lot of criticism because of this surface adjustment seedings.


If Roland Garros also starts doing this, for me that will be foolishness.



Reasons:: as you explained


Which tourneys points to add. Also, how can they change in such a short notice, given that players like Andy Murray have hardly played clay court tournaments in the last 1 odd Year mainly with the idea to maintain rankings.


Agreed, he isn't such a good clay courter, but if he is clearly ahead by almost 2000 points from Ferrer & 2500 points from Rafa, he doesn't deserve to be seeded below both of them.




Also, so many people On social networking sites, keep shouting that draws are rigged. I must add that I laugh at them.



But, if any changes are made to seedings for French Open, without any prior notice, many-2 people will feel that its a clear case of match fixing by rigging the seedings.



Hope, Sanity will prevail & Roland Garros won't do any such idiotic change.


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#9 Anna

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:47 PM

Great write-up & explanation.

 

 

 

If the Roland Garros committee decides to change the seedings, then I will send my tickets back to them with a note, we have been cheated.

 

 

Reason : I want my favorite players to win, but not at the cost of changing some thing which has not been done for 35 odd years.

 

 

 

So, I do hope they stick to the rankings as seedings if it means Fedal or Rafole clash in the QF. I don't agree with Guy Forget that it would be a shame if RAFA & Djokovic will play in the QF. For me, that would be great fun.


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#10 Inez

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:58 PM

Nice write-up & great topic to be discussing about.

 

 

 

There are 2 things which I want to add,

 

 

 

If Rafa or Fed or Nole are good enough to win French or for that any matter, any slam, they should be able to beat every player , how ever tough the draw is.

 

 

 

2ndly, how is Mr Guy Forget so sure that Rafa or Nole or for that matter, Fed are 100% sure to reach Quarters.

 

 

Agreed, they are the best three players on clay, but does that guarantee them of a place in Quarters?

 

 

If not, Then, how can you think of changing draws just to have the more entertaining matches in the semis or final?

 

 

 

So, my vote too is a big no to changing the seeding system.


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#11 Guest_Kaveri_*

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:55 PM

Excellent post. I too feel that it will be fixing if the seeding system is changed. They should stick with what they have done over these years. It would increase the popularity of French Open even more if there is Rafa vs Nole or Fed vs Rafa quarters.

 

 

 

The whole world watches semi & finals, the tournament directors should be more worried as to how the interest can be increased before the semis and finals  :).



#12 Vibhuism

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:32 PM

PS: Thanks for all your comments , re-tweets, shares.

 

 

 

Just dropped by for a quick comment. Please-2 be informed I love Rafa Nadal as much as I love myself :). Need proof, check this out.

 

 

Okay, now that I have clarified this important aspect, I need to tell every one reading this, that this post & example has nothing against Rafa Nadal.

 

 

He has absolutely no role to play in all this. We are against such arbitrary changes by any tournament which is as prestigious as the French Open. That's the purpose of this whole discussion :).

 

 

 

I have been seeing French Open for the last 24 odd years now (ever since I was a 3-4 year old kid) & have the right to feel aggrieved if any such arbitrary change comes about.


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#13 Wendy_redRobin

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:20 AM

I am quite sure that the players themselves would be upset to feel that the seeding were being adjusted on the assumption that certain top ATP seeds may meet in the QF and to fix it so they did not face eachother till the SF or Final.

Part of the excitement and anticipation of watching a Grand Slam .... or any tournament for that matter, is to see players pull out their A game when it matters, even if it means a "lucky loser" advance through the rounds taking out some well known players on the way.

That's what it's all about .... may the best man (or woman) win! Whoever they face on the way to the final and lets keep the seedings as they are when it comes to working out the draw.

I guess most tickets for the QF, SF and finals are sold out before the event so I really don't see what the fuss is about, let the crowd have a treat in the QF should it be a Rafa v Federer or Rafa v Nole.

Are the powers that be at Roland Garros saying by implication that Berdych, Murray or Ferrer ... for example ... would not be such a crowd pleaser?

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#14 Vibhu batra

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:31 PM

100% agreed. After Federer & Rafa weren't playing @ Bercy Masters, 2012


& Nole, Murray lost out early, many people started calling it a failed tournament.


But, all of a sudden Jerzy 'How Many Times' Janowicz appeared &
the whole world forgot every thing & enjoyed his game.


Same thing happened with Gulbis at Indian Wells.



People who don't run Fan pages on social networking sites or who don't tweet photos to
Get retweets to get attention, enjoy more when an underdog does well.


So, I also do hope that sanity will prevail.

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#15 crazyfedfan

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:50 PM

Great post (as usual)! I just have one more addendum to this... could we have it such that Rafa as 1, Roger as 2, Novak as 3, David as 4 and Andy as 5 and then have Andy, Novak and Rafa be on one side of the draw to fight it out? I'm obviously joking here but that's how ludicrous this seems to me. Even if Rafa is seeded 1, like you pointed out, what about the rest? I read somewhere that McEnroe suggested RG should seed Rafa as #1 but he didn't elaborate what he proposed to do with the other players or how to seed them either. Maybe he wasn't interested in any other player?

 

I am with you on this for every reason you mentioned above. Makes no sense to me to tamper with this just for one player, even though he is Rafa (and I'm someone who likes Rafa). As Inez mentioned above, how are we so sure all of them will reach the QFs in the first place? this isn't the year of total domination by the top 4 just yet, all have seemed vulnerable at some point throughout the first few months so who knows how this will all pan out.

 

All I know is I'll be supporting our champ with every fiber of my being no matter what he is ranked or which half of the draw he falls on. And despite the tennis gods messing with us (you know they will, and Roger will get the worst draw ever) - I will just have to keep my faith in the Maestro. Allez Roger!



#16 Vibhu batra

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:26 PM

@Ishita : I agree with every thing you said except the tough draws ;)..


Draws have always been equal ever since Federer won his first slam in 2003 or be it Australian open, 2013 :).

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#17 Guest_Jimmy Anderson_*

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 10:27 PM

Great discussion. Though, I will say yes, main reason - every Grand slam tournament deserves a tough semifinal and final which every fan across the world likes & cherishes.


With full respect to Ferrer I don't think, he can compete with any of the top 4.


& unfortunately, Murray is the weakest clay courter of the top 20, so I will hope, Roland Garros goes ahead and gives a protected seeding to Rafa Nadal. Vamos!



#18 sausan

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:48 AM

Not want to add a word on of what you said, i agree with you guys, for me it doesn't make sense and not fair to change the seeding system just for a player...


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#19 Guest_Iphigenia Rocana_*

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:50 AM

My answer is no, isn;t fair to change the rules. The rules are rules, allpy to everybody regardless.



#20 Guest_Kim_*

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 01:51 PM

What a great discussion & article. I too would feel disgusted if they do any such change. For me, French Open would end then.


yes, I am a Ferrer & Murray fan besides being a Federer, Rafa & Nole fan but most importantly, I'm a fan of justice & my vote is no.



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