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Breaking News: ATP confirms to us that Bercy Masters, 2011 and World Tour Finals, 2011 ATP points will drop down on 5th November, 2012

atp atp 1000 atp wtf bercy masters atp points

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#1 Vibhu batra

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:33 PM

As you are all aware that this year with the objective of shortening the ATP Calendar by two weeks, ATP World Tour Finals, 2012 has been preponed by two weeks & Bercy Masters, 2012 has been preponed by a week.



To read why Bercy Masters, 2012 has been preponed by a week as compared to 2011 & ATP, World Tour Finals, 2012 has been preponed by two weeks, see this detailed discussion here.



Posted Image





As you all are aware that ATP points for a tournament are deducted after 52 weeks of being added.



A quick look up at the ATP rule book states that,


"The ranking period is the immediate past 52 weeks, except for: Barclays ATP World Tour Finals, singles and doubles, which is dropped on the Monday following the last ATP World Tour event of the following year; Futures Series tournaments that are only entered into the system on the second Monday following the tournament's week. Once entered, all tournaments, except for the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals, remain in the system for 52 consecutive weeks."




So, if we apply this simple rule, it is quite clear that :::



As you saw in this post, as BNP PARIBAS Bercy Masters, 2011 ended on 13th November, 2011, so logically speaking the ATP points of Bercy Masters should drop-down on 12th November, 2012.



But, as mentioned in this post, this year BNP PARIBAS Bercy Masters is being held from 29th October, 2012 to 4th November, 2012.



As explained in the ATP Rule book, BARCLAYS ATP World Tour Finals point are to be dropped on the Monday following the last ATP World Tour Event of the year(which happens to be Bercy Masters).





So, applying this simple logic, 2011 World Tour Finals ATP Points need to be deducted on 5th November, 2012.



Now, let us have a look at what the ATP web-site has to say on the points drop-down of these two tournaments.



I am here by using the example of Roger Federer who happens to be the defending champion of both these tournaments.






Here is a screen-shot of the ATP web-site showing the ATP points drop down dates of both these tournaments





bercy wtf.png





If you wish to check it yourself, you can have a look at the ATP web-site here.




For a detailed discussion on this topic & how logically correct is this, keep reading this topic.






Also,ATP has replied to us on this issue.Scroll down to read what ATP had to say on the drop down date.


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#2 Vibhu batra

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:40 AM

So, as you can see from this screen-shot, that currently ATP web-site is showing that Both Bercy Masters 2011 & WTF 2011 will come off on 12th November, 2012.




If at this point of time, if you are thinking that ATP did this unforced error just in case of Roger Federer's points, let me assure you that you can check for any player who played in Bercy Masters & ATP WTF, ATP web-site is showing the same date as I explained above.



Firstly, lets discuss why ATP's web-site is showing this date --------




Obviously, as I explained above, Bercy Masters points should come off ideally after 52 weeks i.e. on 12th November, 2012.



But, going as per the ATP rule book, WTF 2011 points should come off immediately after the last ATP World Tour event i.e. Bercy Masters i.e. on 5th November, 2012.



As last year, Bercy Masters ended on 13th November, 2011, so that's the main reason, the ATP web-site is showing the ATP WTF 2011 points drop-down date as 12th November, 2012.



The main reason for that is that ATP is still to make the adjustment for the changed calendar.




I repeat again, ATP is 100% right in putting the drop down date of Bercy Masters, 2012.



So, that leaves us with the next logical question that will it be right if Bercy Masters, 2011 come off on 12th November, 2012 & ATP WTF, 2011 come off on 5th November, 2012?



Keep reading as I am discussing that in the immediately following post right here in this topic.

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#3 Vibhu batra

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:24 AM

Can Bercy Masters, 2011 come off on 12th November, 2012 & ATP WTF, 2011 come off on 5th November, 2012?




As you all know, ATP World Tour Finals (WTF) is the season ending ATP finale or as ATP advertises across all social networks as Final Showdown (#FinalShowdown on Twitter, Gplus) which features the TOP 8 players.



For all of you curious enough to know, how the selection of TOP 8 players for ATP WTF takes place, read this ------



Originally Posted at rulebook 4.01B from the ATP Rule Book ---





The selection list for ATP World Tour Final shall be:





a. The top seven (7) players in the South African Airways ATP Rankings as of the Monday after the last ATP World Tour tournament of the calendar year;





followed by





b. Up to two (2) Grand Slam winners of that year, in order of their positions, positioned between eight (8) and twenty (20) in the South African Airways ATP Rankings as of that Monday;




followed by





c. Players positioned eight (8) and below in the South African Airways ATP Rankings as of that Monday.






So, two things that are 100% sure from this :::




(i) The selection of Top 8 players is possible only after points of all of all ATP events are added & deducted accordingly.




(ii) Also, as you know, ATP also updates an Year to Date Ranking table (which is also known as Race to London, O2), both the general ATP 52 weeks ranking points & ATP Year to Date (Race to London, O2) points have to become equal before World Tour Finals. Then, only can the points of World Tour Finals be added to players points & the year ending No. 1 player can be decided.





So, going by this logic, it is almost 100% certain (as per my view-point) that Bercy, 2011 & WTF, 2011 ATP points have to come-off (drop down on 5th November, 2012).





Further on, To qualify for WTF, a player who finished in the 2011 year-end top 30 must compete in four Grand Slam tournaments and eight ATP World Tour Masters (ATP 1000) tournaments during 2012. They can count their best six (6) results from ATP World Tour 500, ATP World Tour 250 and other events (Challengers, Futures, Davis Cup, Olympics) toward their ranking.



To count their best six (6), players must have fulfilled their commitment to 500 events – 4 total per year (at least 1 after the US Open). Additionally, commitment players will no longer need to enter the 500 events 12 weeks in advance but instead go back the normal 6-week entry deadline. If eligible to play in one of the Grand Slam or ATP World Tour Masters 1000 tournaments, a player must count the points from these tournaments, even if it is 'a zero pointer' because he missed the event. Just as in Formula One and numerous other sports, if a competitor misses a race or an event, he loses his chance to earn points.




Players with direct acceptance who do not play an ATP World Tour Masters 1000 tournament will be suspended from a subsequent ATP World Tour Masters 1000 event, which will be the next highest points earned ATP World Tour Masters 1000 event within the next 12 months. If an injured player is on site within the first three days of a tournament to conduct promotional activities over a two-day period, a suspension will not be enforced but a 0-pointer will be counted on a player's ranking.



If a player does not play enough ATP 500 events and does not have an ATP 250 or Challenger appearance with a better result, the Davis Cup is counted in the 500s table (if the player entered or achieved better results). If a player does not play enough ATP 250 or Challenger events, the World Team Championship is counted in the 250s table (if the player entered or achieved better results).




If a player could not be present in all required tournament classes (i.e. because of an injury), all uncounted ATP 250 or Challenger results are eligible to be included in his 18 valid tournaments. In teams rankings, Challenger points are excluded. A player who is out of competition for 30 or more days, due to a verified injury, is not penalized. The 2012 Barclays ATP World Tour Finals counts as an additional 19th tournament in the ranking of its eight qualifiers at season's end, while the Davis Cup Final points count towards the next year's race


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#4 Vibhu batra

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:02 AM

All my efforts to get a response from ATP on this issue failed miserably (till 15th October, 2012) , the contact us option on their web-site was not working & they hardly respond to any one on twitter or facebook on such issues.



But, thanks to my Dear Friend Cromar for informing me that a poster on another forum posted that he got a reply from ATP that Bercy 2011 & WTF 2011 ATP Points will get deducted on 5th November, 2012.



Finally, ATP has replied to my e-mail & scroll down to the next post for the reply of ATP.

Edited by Vibhu batra, 16 October 2012 - 08:56 PM.
Update : Response from ATP

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#5 Vibhu batra

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:23 PM

Breaking News :::::::::::


ATP has officially confirmed me that Bercy Masters, 2011 & ATP WTF, 2011 points will drop down on 5th November, 2012.


Pablo Juarez (The Rankings and Prize Money Coordinator at ATP World Tour) replied to my query & here is the exact reply & I quote,





Hi Vibhu,


Thank you for your email.



Yes. 2011 Paris and the 2011 World Tour Finals will drop on November 5, 2012.


The (ATP) website has the wrong date and we will change it soon.

Kind Regards,


Pablo Juarez
Rankings and Prize Money Coordinator
ATP World Tour
201 ATP Boulevard
Ponte Vedra Beach, FL 32082
email: (hidden for privacy concerns)


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#6 Vibhu batra

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:25 PM

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#7 Vibhu batra

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:01 PM

After completing 300 weeks at ATP #1 on 15th October, 2012,



How many more weeks can Roger Federer remain ATP No.1 in 2012? Read this detailed article by me ---




http://www.rogerfede...tp-no1-in-2012/


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#8 Guest_John Dykes_*

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 01:03 AM

Congrats on getting a response from ATP, they rarely reply. Also, the explanation explaining why BERCY Masters 2011 & WTF 2011 will get drop down on 5th November, 2012 was so well explained. Well done.

#9 Inez

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:46 AM

Wow, congrats. Good to see ATP replying & admitting that their web-site is showing the wrong drop down date for Bercy & WTF 2011.
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#10 Anna

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:11 AM

Ha ha, just now checked & finally, some sanity has prevailed at ATP & They have made the drop-down date as 5th November, 2012 :).



So, congrats for correcting & thanks for the informed article :).
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#11 Vibhu batra

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:16 PM

Another important Update :::



ATP again e-mailed to let me know, that they have changed the dates on their web-site & now, their web-site is showing the right drop down dates :)





atp corrects.png


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#12 Kristina

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:35 PM

Many congrats for the 2nd reply :). I reckon this post would have surely helped. Well done & its amazing how quickly, they changed after your e-mail :) xx
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#13 Vibhu batra

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:08 PM

If you reached this article, wanting to read how will the ATP Ranking scenarios look like post the defeat of Roger Federer at Swiss Indoors, Basel 2012 to Juan Martin Del potro, see this detailed article -------





http://www.rogerfedererfans.com/forum/topic/806-after-completing-300-weeks-how-many-more-weeks-can-roger-federer-remain-atp-no1-in-2012/page__st__20#entry7997


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#14 Vibhu batra

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:14 PM

Also, for every one asking, yeps, Basel 2011 ATP Points will get dropped-off on 5th November, 2012..




Only an exception has been made by the ATP for Bercy Masters, 2011 & ATP WTF, 2011 points because of re-scheduling of the Tennis calendar.

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#15 Vibhu batra

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:16 PM

For all of you who might be having doubts about double counting of ATP points of a tournament because of re-scheduling, I explained why Swiss Indoors, Basel points will be counted twice (2011 points & 2012 points for a week) in great details here.

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#16 V.K. Batra

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

Also, for every one reaching this article to search as to how come ATP deducted 3000 points from Roger Federer's total ranking points on 5th November, the detailed explanation including covering the 2012 year end ranking scenarios has been comprehensively explained in the following post ------------





http://www.rogerfede...d-atp-rankings/





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